Nicola: Client challenge of the week then, Judith.
Judith: Okay. It’s what I offer isn’t me. If people don’t want it, I’m not rejected personally. This is about almost everybody I’ve ever met who can’t make the distinction between their offering and themselves. For instance if I offer coaching and people say no, I’m not personally rejecting. They’re just saying no, they don’t want coaching right now. Thanks very much. If my client is a chef and we offer pudding. You say, “No.” We’re not personally rejected. If they’re a writer and we don’t buy their book, we’re not rejecting them. It’s about achieving a separation between who you are as a human being and what you offer in your business.
Nicola: This is a really interesting one. I’ll tell you why… Because there is the thing about the whole lean start-up movement and having a minimum viable product, and the idea of my internet marketing training is to get people to the point where they make an offer as quickly as possible to see if there’s any traction, and so in the case of a pudding, or coaching, or whatever, you’ve sort of decided that this is the pudding you’re going to put on the menu, and this is what you are going to be coaching around, but in the terms of some businesses, you know, online businesses for example, it might well be that you’ve got a great product or service but you’re not making the offer in a way that makes it attractive to the target market.
You know, which pudding?
You’re going to offer pudding in a restaurant, and you’re going to probably offer a selection of puddings. Online if you offer a selection of puddings it’s going to confuse your customer, so it’s better to offer one pudding, or perhaps three puddings, rather than ten or twenty, but which puddings to offer, that’s the question, and are you offering them in a way that your customer would like them. For example, if it’s rum baba, for example, let’s just pick that at random because I had one while I was away. Is that rum baba described attractively enough to make someone want to choose it on the menu? Is it the appropriate price? Are there instalment options for the rum baba?
Judith: If nobody buys the rum baba there’s no need to go and cry in the kitchen because they’ve rejected you personally.
Nicola: Yes, but it might well be that you –
Judith: My point is this separation between the one who offers and the offering, so that… I hear what you’re saying which is there’s a way of refining the offering so it becomes more attractive, but whether it’s more attractive or less attractive, it’s never me.
Nicola: Very true, and that is one of the things that good sales people are able to do – is that they are able to detach from it, and they’re able to say, “Have I made a good offer? Is it presented in a way that the person can understand, and is it an appropriate price or are there easy instalment options?” Then if people still say no, they do realise that it’s not them, and they go onto the next person for whom that offer might be appropriate.
Judith: Yeah. There’s a very good CD that you can get on Amazon for four pounds by Jim Rohn who was… He’s talking in this about the rejection that people in, particularly network marketing get, and how you ‘no lives in the’… ‘Yes lives in the land of no.’ I think that’s right, and that you have to ask ten times in order to make three sales, or two sales, or one sale, and you get to know your strike rate so that you know … You’re enthusiastic about asking another ten people because in there, there will be three who will say yes, but also very important in that field I think because it is very confusing about… There’s so much rejection.
Who was it the other day? I think it was Graham Norton, while you were away, that you’ll be able to catch up on, but he had a lot of actors on the sofa. No. It was Jonathan Ross! He had Dame Diana Rigg who is in something called Game of Thrones that you probably watch.
Nicola: No. I don’t.
Judith: Mel and Sue, Danny Dyer from EastEnders, and Johnny Vegas, and they were all talking about going to auditions and being rejected, and I think one of them had been rejected twice, and the other one was talking about being rejected for a butter advert, and Jonathan Ross said, “I don’t know how you do a job that involves so much personal rejection.” I think perhaps if you’re an actor, it does involve personal rejection, because what they’re saying is you are not right for this role, but in business we are not personally, there is no need to be personally rejected… It’s not us. I think the clients need to get a little bit of resilience, a sort of resilience margin between the products and services they offer and themselves.
I think it’s all too easy when you’re a newbie to feel that you’re personally rejected, you’ve done something wrong, it’s your fault. They don’t like you. It’s nothing to do with you as a human being, by and large.
Nicola: I find this very difficult in higher end clients and done-for-you services which is one of the reasons I’m making a shift from, you know, I worked with Neil for two years, and that was actually the main reason I left ROARLocal, was because I didn’t like the fact that when a client hands over a large amount of money per month, and they expect everything done for them, I couldn’t separate the responsibility for what was being done and the client’s success, so even if the things were being done efficiently that we’d agreed to do, if it didn’t have the desired outcome, I felt bad, and it –
Judith: Do you know what? I hear what you’re saying and I think what we all have to do, and I mean anybody that’s listening, is that we have to change this idea that as a client if we pay a large amount of money for something everything is going to be done for us, and miracles are going to ensue. I think that the service provider in return for a large sum of money has to do exactly what they’ve promised they will do in terms of the work they’ll do. The results cannot be guaranteed, I know. The client has to often do stuff as well even when they pay you a large sum of money. I think there’s an education gap between what people expect…
I’ve had a client come to me and say they paid a large sum of money to somebody else who’d offered to hold their hand through something, and it hadn’t gone well, and they were disappointed. I don’t think that was my client’s problem. I don’t think it was the service provider’s problem. I think there’s a misunderstanding about what miracles will or will not ensue when you pay somebody else a large sum of money.
Nicola: Yeah. That’s why I feel much, much happier with the Facebook ads scenario because it’s very clear cut what I’m delivering. I’m either delivering likes, clicks, i.e. traffic or leads, and I can’t guarantee sales, but having said that if we can get twenty-five sales a day, I can then start to increase those sales, but sales are never guaranteed on buying traffic, and I like it that way. I like the fact that I’m… I find it easier to compartmentalise in my head, and it’s interesting, I think it might be a woman/male thing because, perhaps even parent thing, because all the men I know that are successful are successfully able to – are you all right? – compartmentalise in their heads. They just don’t seem to take on personal responsibility.
Judith: You’re absolutely right. Do you remember we ran an event once? The one that I ran. The one with the two hundred people and there were two people that didn’t like it and asked for their money back, and I went out to lunch with my old boss who was a bloke. He said, “What’s the matter with you?” I went, “Well, I ran this event for two hundred people and two people didn’t like it.” He went, “What about the hundred and ninety-eight that did?” He said, “I’m pleased if… I’m happy if I please fifty percent of the room.” I think you’re right. I don’t know whether it’s a man/woman thing anymore because we’re all much more like each other, but I do think that there is a choice to be made here that I am not my product, there is no personal rejection if somebody didn’t like it.
Nicola: Yes. That’s right, or you’ve got to accept that about yourself. Know yourself well enough that, as I have come to, that I’m never going to be able to not feel responsible for my client’s success, and somehow when I’m coaching someone in the whole internet marketing realm I don’t feel the same responsibility as if they had paid me to do the service. When it comes to paid for services I just have to limit myself to things were there are very clear deliverables.
Judith: Yeah. There you go. I think that’s a good response always is if we notice pain, to create a solution that reduces the pain potential.
Nicola: Yes. Exactly.
Judith: And that’s what you’ve done.
Nicola: Yeah, and so that CD by Jim Rohn then, was that called “Yes Lives in the Land of No”?
Judith: No. It’s not, but I’ll look it up while we’re talking actually, because I recommend it to almost every client. He taught this brilliant thing of… His is he gets three wins in ten asks, so he starts the day by putting ten stones in one of his… I think he’s dead now actually, poor sausage, but he starts the day by putting ten stones in one pocket, and every time he asks he moves a stone from one pocket to the other, because he knows he’s just in the… Hang on. Jim Rohn CD…
Nicola: While you’re doing that just let’s… I’ve always been very resistant to sales and I wish I had actually got over this earlier because selling is just solving someone’s problems. It’s just serving someone.
Judith: I totally love selling. I totally love selling. One of my clients said over the weekend, “I don’t like marketing because it’s forcing my stuff on people.” No. It’s not. It’s telling them that it exists and it’s creating desire so they want it.
Nicola: Yes. It’s making it easy for them to buy because so many people make it so difficult for people to buy. We know people like that, don’t we?
Judith: Yeah. So, Jim Rohn, got it here. Building Your Network Marketing Business, but don’t let that put you off because I’ve never built a network marketing business, but I learned so much from the CD. Currently four pounds. Used to be two quid. I must have recommended it to so many people that it’s got more popular and the price has gone up or something.
Nicola: Okay. All right. The other thing is of course that in the internet marketing realm we work in terms of direct mail numbers, so it’s a one to ten percent conversion, so for every thousand people you show your product or service to, you’ll be lucky if between ten and a hundred show any interest at all, i.e. opt-in, and then you will be lucky if between one and three percent actually buy of that thousand. I work on those numbers, so I don’t get disappointed, and I don’t –
Judith: Now you’re explaining to all of our listeners why they might need a much bigger list and a much bigger pond to be fishing in, because they’ll be lucky if they get ten out of a thousand.
Nicola: Yeah. Between ten and a hundred opt-ins, and between one and three percent on sales, and that’s a thirty to fifty dollar price point, so really you’ve got to work ten times harder than you think you’ve got to, but once you’ve… I’ll never forget the other wonderful thing was when Chris Barrow described it like a reservoir. If you can build a reservoir, a pool of people who know who you are, what you do, and what you can do for them, and how you can help them, but it’s really hard work to fill that reservoir up, but once the reservoir is full every teacup you pour in one side will result in a teacup overflowing out the other side, and then every bucket you pour in one side, a bucket will pour out the other side.
It’s about getting to the point where the reservoir is full, and then it becomes much, much easier to make a sale because you don’t have to put that much effort in the other side.
Judith: So this problem is for – we’re speaking to the people who, during the reservoir-building period, have also not made the separation of themselves from their offering yet. These are start-up emotional issues I think.
Nicola: Yeah. I think they carry on. I think they manifest themselves in start-up, you know, when we say start-up we mean new businesses, and actually I think it can manifest itself in a start-up business where it’s venture capital funded or bootstrapped, and then it can also manifest itself in the corporate world, because if you’ve got a position in the corporate world and you’re trying to persuade other people to go along with a plan, you’re selling to them, aren’t you? If you can’t…
Nicola: …detach yourself from the outcome you’re going to feel like a failure.
Judith: Yeah. That’s right. Offer them the project, not yourself.
Nicola: Yes. Yes.